Patriotism

[FreeRoller]

The link you sent Eddy was very moving and touching, great to see folk showing their appreciation for the brave men and women fighting for our freedom and safety, I have family out there, and know people who've lost their loved ones through it and know the heartache and devastation it causes.

I don't know if you've posted the link of the forum as I can't seem to find it but I hope you don't mind if I post it here?:-


http://www.jeffwinterentertainmentandmedia.co.uk/rangers/0910001.php

I read it and instantly thought of a song "Soldier" from a famous punk band from my town South Shields, the Angelic Upstarts, the song tells a story of a young British soldier on duty in Northern Ireland which brings a lump to your throat and makes the hairs on my body stand up everytime I listen to it.

I'm not sure if I can post a link for it Eddy? But will if allowed, I can only find it on youtube as a two song video, the Soldier track starts 2.20 mins in after the first song (beware the first song contains some bad language), it's worth 5 minutes of your time to listen too and make you think:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ULsi0xG19w

The lyrics are:-


Soldier

In a station in the city a British soldier stood
Talking to the people there if the people would
Some just stared in hatred, and others turned in pain
And the lonely British soldier wished he was back home again

Come join the British Army! said the posters in his town
See the world and have your fun, come serve before the Crown
The jobs were hard to come by and he could not face the dole
So he took his country's shilling and enlisted on the roll

For there was no fear of fighting, the Empire long was lost
Just ten years in the army getting paid for being bossed
Then leave a man experienced a man who's made the grade
A medal and a pension, some mem'ries and a trade

Then came the call to Ireland as the call had came before
Another bloody chapter in an endless civil war
The priests they stood on both sides the priests they stood behind
Another fight in Jesus's name the blind against the blind

The soldier stood between them, between the whistling stones
And then the broken bottles that led to broken bones
The petrol bombs that burnt his hands the nails that pierced his skin
And now wished that he'd stayed at home surrounded by his kin

The station filled with people the soldier soon was bored
But better in the station than where the people warred
The room filled up with mothers with daughters and with sons
Who stared with itchy fingers at the soldier and his gun

A yell of fear a screech of brakes the shattering of glass
The window of the station broke to let the package pass
A scream came from the mothers as they ran towards the door
Dragging children crying from the bomb upon the floor

The soldier stood and could not move his gun he could not use
He knew the bomb had seconds and not minutes on the fuse
He could not run to pick it up and throw it in the street
There were far too many people there, too many running feet

Take cover! yelled the soldier, Take cover for your lives
And the Irishmen threw down their young and stood before their wives
They turned towards the soldier, their eyes alive with fear
For God's sake save our children or they'll end their short lives here

The soldier moved towards the bomb his stomach like a stone
Why was this his battle God why was he alone
He lay down on the package and he murmured one farewell
To those at home in England to those he loved so well

He saw the sights of summer felt the wind upon his brow
The young girls in the city parks how precious were they now
The soaring of the swallow the beauty of the swan
The music of the turning world so soon would it be gone

A muffled soft explosion and the room began to quake
The soldier blown across the floor his blood a crimson lake
They never heard him cry or shout they never heard him moan
And they turned their children's faces from the blood and from the bones

The crowd outside soon gathered and the ambulances came
To carry off the body of a pawn lost to the game
And the crowd they clapped and cheered and they sang their rebel songs
One soldier less to interfere where he did not belong

But will the children growing up learn at their mothers' knees
The story of that soldier who bought their liberty
Who used his youthful body as a means towards the end
Who gave his life to those who called him murderer not friend

[eddy]

Keith,

The song was very touching, and if I recall it actually happened.

First we are proud of the unsung heroes, as opposed those yobs we see in the streets in many walks and ways. The difference is great. The men as young as they are, show how British lads are and will always be. No one can simply hold candle to them. Yet when we reflect, they are where they are defending the very ones who sent them there, and in doing so make millions from the rash decisions. Mostly, the politicians, the lowest of the low.

The lads with their guts in blood and the politicians with snouts in the trough and their crocodile tears. Do they care, I doubt it.

The hurt is with the loved ones the lads leave behind, but the real and brave lads who give their lives are forgotten far too quickly. But who is too really be pitied........................the ones who sent them to their deaths. Because sooner or later, it will catch up with them, for no one ever escaped this. They may go to hell, not so, they are there now! living in it. The odd thing is they do not know it!

Rudyard Kipling summed it up well!

TOMMY
by Rudyard Kipling (1865-1936)



I went into a public-'ouse to get a pint o' beer,
The publican 'e up an' sez, "We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:
O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away";
But it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play,
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play.

I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, wait outside";
But it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide,
The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
O it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide.

Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, 'ow's yer soul?"
But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll,
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll.

We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints,
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;
While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, fall be'ind",
But it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind,
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
O it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind.

You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
An' Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool -- you bet that Tommy sees!

[FreeRoller]

Hi Eddy,

I didn’t know the song actually happened, but probably I can imagine as the band have wrote a lot about actual real life topics, a sad song about pointless waste of a young life from senseless war over a difference of believes, yep the politicians make the decisions to go to war and are never in danger, it’s others who have to face the dangers of the fighting.

It was only again tonight and last night about the young soldier in Bishop Auckland who was killed and buried today on the local news, it is the families who suffer so much, this young lads family were in tears talking about him, such a shame.

I think that’s the first thing I’ve read on Rudyard Kipling, very fitting poem, I’ll have to read it a couple of times really understand it.

[eddy]

Keith, Kipling is saying what we are saying!

When a soldier is at home and danger does not threaten, we treat him like absolute dirt, sailors, and airmen too!

But when the war drums sound.......................He is the hero! I like what one lad said, I killed a dozen ragheads and they give me a bloody medal,................now if I had killed one bloke in England, they would lock me for ever, I don't get it!

[FreeRoller]

Thanks Eddy I'm following you now, yeah I can understand what that lad was saying too, I came across lots of military over the years doing weddings and have heard some real horrible stories.

I have one from my cousin on a lighter note who a few years ago in the middle of the Saddam conflict used to drive around in a tank in the middle of the bombings and mayhem and used to sit in the tank filming the outside's going's on with his mobile phone, I suppose the threat of being in the middle of a danger zone becomes the norm.

Peace is something I don't think will ever happen in the world.

[eddy]

There never has been peace at any time in the history of the world. Nor ever will be.

Iraq is important to the USA, and maybes us, but is it the sand, is it about Islam...............no, it is the usual story, Oil! Pearl Harbour would never have happened if the Yanks had not interfered with the oil and the Nipponese. They did,and look what they got.

Mugabi, he is one dictatorial fanatic who needs shifting, but would Obama, Blair if he was still there do anything for the horrific treatment of the people? No, there is no oil there they need, nor is the area of any strategic importance.
Ethiopia, same again. Sudan the same again.

I am not pro Nazi, but Hitler when told about the League of Nations, just laughed, he thought they were useless and would not waste money unless it was to their interest. And look what he did.

Iran is on the verge of nuclear weapons,and the biggest oil area in the world, but will the UN do anything? The UN is just talk and no action to speak of. Obama nor Brown will dare to repeat the Iraq fiasco. True the Country was ran ruthlessly, and could do with a change, but that is up to the people.

Blair has admitted he interfered at the behest of his boss. George W.Bush. There were no WMD and never would be. But the oil was the thing.

So our lads die, and die for what? Making the rich even richer.

Sent into battle without the equipment to deal with the situation, whilst the Government were too busy with their, swinish snouts in the trough and living the life of Riley to care, then going to the cenotaph and shedding their crocodile tears. Some lads spending their leave getting money to buy the much needed flak jackets etc.

It is said, you get the Government you deserve..................how true! We have them. But what choice is there?

[FreeRoller]

What a world eh Eddy?

Oil… We need an alternative means of fuel and fast, for the sake of the environment and mankind.

I haven’t followed all this about Tony Blair or know the ins and outs, but if I remember correctly the threat of Bin Laden’s having nuclear weapons - Britain and the U.S. had to act fast, yet he’s the one trial now, I watched a little bit of testimony from one of the ladies who was involved at the time and was saying something like, we didn’t have much say, Tony Blair had made his mind up about things and that was it - well, we appoint one man to make the decisions, just like the States, it is these President’s who have to confer and make decisions of huge magnitude with little time to debate about, if Blair had took too long and we were wiped out the poor bloke would still have been slated.

I’m not one for politicians, a bunch of grown ups arguing like kids and getting nothing done, all promising the make the country and our lives better yet nothing changes whoever’s in charge, I’ve seen documentaries about Tony Blair and I think he was a normal kid, into football and music, and could relate more than most politicians to the people of the country and not one after as much as he could get for himself.

Making the rich richer, yes when you think about it your right, people are being killed and the rich bosses are getting so many more thousands or millions a year on top of what they are getting already, equipment and not having the right gear for soldiers I’ve seen on tv for a number of years, what a joke that is isn’t it.

I’m out of my depth trying to post about politics as I don’t know enough about it really to have a real understanding, I’ve always been totally disillusioned with it all, it reminds me of the many managers in recent years at the club, face after face in charge, all the hype and the talk, yet nothing changed. Politics and football managers.. One of the same?

[eddy]

Stop the world I want to get off!

Maybes solar energy will be the answer, or propane gas. But as you say there has to be an alternative form of fuel to use, and our scientists have to knuckle down and find it! Atomic energy may hold the key?

Blair had no defence. Regardless of Saddam Hussein's ruthlessness,that was something for the United Nations, a toothless tiger to act on, not two individuals who committed their Nations to war! It made me think! What is a dictatorship, in theory it is actually a military junta, but now means something else. So what is the difference between a dictatorship and democracy. Blair defined it! A dictator makes all the decisions, a democracy the leader makes all the decisions! There is no argument here. Nor any difference.

Take the BA flight to Davos on monetary issues: Boris Johnson, the Lord Mayor of London and former Conservative M.P for Henley on Thames, travelled economy, Mandelson, the Lord of everything and deputy P.M. travelled in the luxury class. This then is Herbert Morrison's grandson. Living the life of Riley at the expense of the tax payer. Johnson wants all politicians and government lackey's to travel economy, if they have to travel.It is just one big take on. Mandelson is only where he is simply because he is shit stirrer and this keeps him quiet. He has stashed millions away, but where he got them no one knows. This is democracy at work!

Gen: De Gaulle...............'I have come to the conclusion that politics is too serious a business to be left to politicians' and for all his faults, how right he was!

As you say. Blair made up his mind. He did well in politics as did his wife Cherry, the property they now own is simply unbelievable, and a lot of his income he now cops is from the U.S. his reward for being a good pal, and sending our lads to their death for no logical reason. The troubles in the area we are involved in has been going on for hundreds of years, and there is no answer, they live that sort of life and prefer, much as we do ours!

The politician does not even believe himself, if he did, he would no open his mouth. Blair may have been normal at sometime, but he went nuts at some time also. He is into music alright,in his case the fiddle!

It was said many years ago, and it used to be done, get the politicians in a field and let them sort it out with fists or however they like, but leave innocent people alone.

You don't need to have Christian views to realise Christ, when he said.......'My Kingdom is not of this world', the Mount of Temptations, worship evil and the world is yours, but he refused and rightly. Blair like some of the lads he had murdered, will one day finish up in some wooden box, just a bundle of bones, what memorial!

Yes sending the lads into areas to fight where they were not equipped for action, tantamount to murder, and every politician knows this!

I don't think you are out of your depth, you speak as you see it. As Seneca,Socrates, and others set the criteria, if what you say cannot be disputed then it is fact and accepted, you have done just that.
No difference between politicians and many football Club owners.............that is true!

I think you put things as you see them Keith and in the right way!

[FreeRoller]

Thanks Eddy, I’m glad what I posted wasn’t a load of rubbish, I don’t usually comment on politics.

That would be something watching the politicians trying to sort it out in a field, that would be a laugh, you pick a fight or get involved in a fight and get others to fight for you! While you stay in safety… what a world.

Very funny about Blair and the fiddle, I didn’t know about too much of what he’s done, again power has strange affects on folk.

I think solar energy is the way to go, I’ve seen houses like the self build ones use solar power and can manage to run the whole house for a full year, I’ve been impressed with stuff like this, I know the DIY stores sell portable wind turbines, so this power is slowly coming available. Atomic sounds dangerous, turning daylight into power will be a good way of not harming the planet which is vitally important in this day and age.

Talking of Christ, that’s a coincidence with life here lately.. But that’s another story and maybe Liesha will tell you that one.

[eddy]

Keith, thanks for your responses, they show you have the mind to speak and do so without fear of favour.

I am not really into politics, but you can stand so much, then something has to be done. In Australia, you MUST vote, or you get a fine, it is compulsory. The system is better in many ways, it is on options.E.G. say you want to vote for the Greens or whoever,and they do not make it, then you put down a second choice. Then at the end of the day, the votes are counted, and the Greens say who did not win, their vote will be then given to the second one you wanted!

The Lower house is similar to the UK, but the Senate, has to be elected by the people, if bill is not passed then a double dissolution could be called, for a new government. The House of Lords is old hat and has to go. Mandelson was made a Lord so he automatically gets into the government, this is not democracy, this is bullshit!

With Blair, he failed as do all politicians, as you recall he was also kept out of the EEC. They knew what he was up to. It is well past the time we cut this nonsense out about a 'special relationship' with the Yanks. The UK is now part of Europe, like it or not. It was Churchill who said he would welcome and dreamt of the United States of Europe, and he was someone on the ball!

With Blair, power corrupts, and absolute power absolutely corrupts, it is just that way.

I know it is very different, but Dr.Diesel,did invent the diesel engine, it uses the rubbish from oil! OK that is no answer, but it shows there are different ways to do things.

I think we have to think global here on power. In Oz, you can harness the power of the sun, I have 6 panels on my roof, many have hot water tanks heated by the sun. What scientists are up to is anyone's guess. Just look at the jet engine, it was invented by Frank Whittle, a working class lad who joined the R.A.F!

Fuel wise we are in some sort of furrow and like crosswords, sometimes it is best to walk away and come back then look at again, oddly we see it from a different light. I know this from my own personal views, e.g. I have read all of Charles John Huffam Dickens books at least 3 times, and oddly, each time something is added on the notes I make on what think on referring to them. Something I had not seen before!

What I am getting at here, we have to get away from the ideas we have of mechanisation, and the fossil fuel idea completely. A new method has to be found to harness the energy..............energy we probably are not aware exists.

I know the houses you speak of, they are designed to harness all the sunlight available, which is a good thing! Take the sea for arguments sake, the currents that occur there naturally, could they not be harnessed? Then we come back to the wind towers, but the thing here is we are still in the furrow! Getting power to run machines................so, are we not putting the cart before the horse?

Has it ever occurred to you that we do not live in the present, nor could do? Well it is true. I'll tell you why, the sun is 98 billion miles away, consequently, it takes the sunlight to travel to earth 8 minutes, therefore, what you are looking at now happened then 8 mins ago, so is there such a thing on earth as time? We call it time, but what is time, no one really knows! We say 24 hours is one day. We say that! But that is bunk! Sometimes due to nature the day is shorter or longer depending on the atmospheric effects on the earth! It actually slows the earth down! Or speeds it up in spinning.

Lets just look at one thing we do know. If you weight a dice, you can make it fall to one of six dots every time, hence we get the saying...............'a loaded dice'! OK what that got to do with things on earth? Everything, just how much of the earth have we pulled out of it to make some differences? Never mind the global warming, I mean the oil, minerals! There are billions being extracted the world over! So then what does this effect have ultimately? Sound daft, but is it? If it is daft then the loaded dice theory is daft! But it is not. Billions upon billions of minerals are extracted in even open mining from the Continent! This is happening all over the world! It must affect the balance eventually!

I wonder if there is any real truth in this global warming, or has it been going on for years? Say Australia reduces its C.O emissions, then what....................China say does not! Then China is the winner, whilst the Aussies are the losers due to lack of energy and work!

On politics, Obama still lives in the past.He is under the delusion that the USA is the most powerful nation on earth, but what he forgets,is that China has more invested in the USA and that is real money, not borrowed money or printed paper. Just look around you and see the influence the Chinese are now having................it is just not known. One small example. The Chinese are making the uniforms for the Australian Army now! Australian firms have lost out. Next they were importing iron ore from Oz, they have over come that now, they bought the mines outright!

On the political scene, that again is joke, in the USA you have two choices, your vote Republican of Democrat, whatever the difference I am not sure..................that then is their democracy!

The Chinese have a similar system, it is called Communism, you can choose a Republican of Democrat just the same. It does not matter really I suppose who votes for what.

I have seen Chinese kids studying, and the Yanks do not have a patch on them. They first must become a member of the kids Communist wing, or they don't get educated, then when they do, they are followed up by the millions as to how far they will go,and in what field. Even the kids are tested in English...........just imagine an English kid getting tested on Chinese...................(let alone English!)









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